Hey all,After failing several times in the early stages of the Imperator scenario I got frustrated. I sat down and very methodically worked out the first stages of the game, to be as efficient as possible. I have not finished the scenario yet, but I got to the noblemen stage using this opening, so I thought I'd share it.
Those looking for more from the historical strategy game Dawn of Discovery (PC) will get their wish on February 25, as publisher Ubisoft has confirmed that is when the downloadable 'Venice.
Hopefully it sparks a discussion on more efficient ways to do the early game, and some tips on how to actually beat the AI and finish the hardest scenarios.Imperator Scenario:In this scenario there are 3 hard AI players who build very fast, and are very aggressive. There were a few other topics on how to beat them (date-trick, etc) but these tricks seem to have been fixed in Venice. In my first attempts I immediately captured a lot of the islands. This resulted in an AI player attacking my ships and warehouses as soon as he hit Patrician (required for warships), and also settling on these islands.So some things I learned: Only settle one Oriental and one Occidental island in the early stages of the game. If you settle more, you have a big chance of taking an island the AI wants, which will result in very early war and harassment. I wasn't able to survive this. Try to avoid 'finding' the other AI players' settlements.
This also means finding as little uninhabited islands as possible, since the AI could settle there later. If the AI does not know you, he is less likely to bother you. The AI is able to call in an auxiliary fleet from the get-go. You will need to wait for 400 honor. So don't bother harassing the AI early on.
Use the to figure out how many houses you can build/upgrade. Use some of the tips from 1404 Wikia: and, but be aware: not everything applies to the gameplay in Venice, and there are some half truths / suboptimal things in there. Build bases of operation to cover your entire settlement, and always respond to enemy henchmen alerts by finding them and clicking on them. If you fail to do this the arsons and riots they instigate will cripple your economy completely.
This opening is based on the Imperator scenario, where you start with a flagship with 40 tools, 40 wood, 10 fish, and 10,000 gold. If you start with more gold, you can obviously expand a lot quicker and not everything might apply.This opening should keep your balance in the green for 99% of the time. It attempts to minimize the time waiting for gold or resources. To achieve this you need to have NO delay in getting your resource production up and running, and quickly get a very positive balance in order to make some gold.Pre-game It is a must to explore the map beforehand: Find the biggest Occidental island with Hemp and Cider, and preferably more than 1 iron source. Look for the biggest Oriental island with Spices, Dates and preferably Clay and a lot of green areas. Remember where these islands are, and where the Vizier and the Venetian are. Restart the map.First minutes Immediately sell your 10 starting fish to Northburg Buy all wood and tools from Northburg (-2200g) Sail to the occidental island and settle there with your.Build the following buildings: 1x 1x + 6x 1x + 24x /list The fisherman will only support 24 houses, and because you have to watch your resources this is fine for now.
Put the peasant's tax level on Happy (Light Green), so they will move in and still maximize your revenues. Load all remaining resources from your ship into your warehouse, and sail back to Northburg. As soon as you hit 60 peasants build 1x + 1x As soon as you hit 90 peasants build 1x, and put your peasant's tax level to Euphorious to make them ascend. You earned 50 honor through the 90-peasant-mark, so buy the 50-honor scroll from Northburg and head for the Vizier.Your first citizens Your flagship is sailing to the Vizier, and as soon as it reaches him turn in the scroll and buy the 10 tools he has for sale. His tools are cheaper than buying them from Northburg or the Venetian. Send your Orient ship to the island you picked, but don't settle it yet. Send your flagship back to your island, but stop by the Venetian/Northburg on the way.
In the meantime: as soon as your first citizens pop up you should put their tax rate to Happy. Lock the building materials and manually upgrade (this is faster) as soon as possible until you have 16 citizen houses. Your first priority is to unlock your tools production and get it up and running: 16 houses is enough to do this. After your first citizen also immediately build: 1x + 1x 1x 1x 16x /list These 16x houses should only be built with 'excess' wood. Don't let your wood go under 30: you will need the wood to build the tool production.
When your flagship reaches the Venetian/Northburg you need to check how many tools you need to buy. A complete tools loop will cost you 22 tools. Buy enough tools so that (Tools in main town + Tools on ship) = 22. Now sail back to your warehouse and drop off the tools.
Build the tools production (This will cost you a LOT: 2950G, 43 wood, 22 tools, 13 bricks): 1x 1x 1x 1x 2x /list Ask for a quest from Northburg (Through diplomacy screen) if you didn't get one yet, and do it with your flagship. Now build another 14x as soon as you have the wood.
You should then have 38x peasant + 16x citizen. This is the maximum amount of houses that is supported with your current production buildings, but you can safely upgrade all peasants. In you can see a part of what your town should look like at this point.
Notice all houses are in range of the chapel, and your balance income is over +300. There are two cider farms and two fisher huts on your island, and you have some basic resource production going.
Please note that the following is by no means set in stone: after the first minutes of the game there are infinite ways to continue. I'm just describing what worked for me when playing the Imperator scenario.Now that you have your occidental settlement up and running your next priority is ascending to patricians.
At this time you will be pretty much broke and low on resources, so you'll have to wait for resources/gold to trickle in sometimes.Settling the Orient Use your Caravel ship to build the following on your Oriental island of choice: 1x 1x 14x 1x + 1x /list If you have an island with some fertile areas be aware where you place these buildings: you should be close to the fertile area, so your SMB can be built there. This way you avoid building an expensive Noria. As soon as the Nomad population grows to 150 (unlocks Spices) build 2x. While you wait build the following on your main island: 1x (start another houses area) 1x 2x 4x TIP: Use layout/list You will probably be low on tools during this time, and high on wood.
Start putting all your excess wood into new peasant houses around both Marketplaces. This will boost your balance: peasants are the best way to make money. If you don't give them a chapel around your second Marketplace they will not ascend, but still provide a reliable income. Build a new Cider farm and Fisherman's hut when the need arises.
Build 2x, and use your flagship to store the excess stone you build up. When you have some tools again use them to upgrade peasants to citizens: put the peasants to euphoric and use all your tools to upgrade. Do this until you have 60 citizen houses (2x spices won't support much more). By the time your spices build up to 20-30 on your Oriental island, set up a trading route with your Caravel to deliver them to your main island. With the first batch of spices on the way and a steady supply of clothes coming in there is only one thing left before ascension is possible to Patricians: a. Save for, and build 1x.
Obviously you should put it near the Marketplace with citizens. Set your citizens to Euphoric and wait for the first to request ascension. Patricians will pay only marginally more taxes than citizens at first, because a lot of their needs are not met. So don't spend all your resources on upgrading them, it is not a priority. Now that you have patricians it is a good time to get a second tools loop set up. Click to see what your settlement could look like around this time.
I have 40-ish peasant houses, around 50 citizens and some patricians. I have a healthy economy with a balance of around +900.Patricians and new lands Start buying tools in your Oriental settlement, you'll need them later. Your patricians want and, and you need a second tools loop.
Load up your flagship with 40 wood, 40 tools and 20 bricks, and settle a new island with Wheat and Herbs fertility. Also make sure you have some iron and stone sources on the island you pick. Keep making peasant houses with your excess resources. Build the following on your newly settled island: 1x 1x 1x 1x 2x 2x 1x /list On your main island build 1x + 1x Build the following in your Oriental settlement: 1x 2x 1x /list On your main island build 1x and produce one or two small trading ships.Noblemen and beyond. By this time you should have a good idea of what you are doing, and you have an excellent flow of resources and balance.
To wrap it up here is a list of a lot of things that you can do from this point, most of them in parallel. Set up bread and beer production and transport from your new island. (Bread: bakery+ 2x cropfarm + mill, Beer: brewery + herb garden + crop farm) Settle some extra islands: look for clay, indigo, silk, sugar, roses, coffee, almonds. Whatever you are lacking. Don't forget the fertility items the Vizier sells! Turn in some more honor scrolls until you reach the third rank. Build Nomad houses until you have 30 of them, then build the quartz mine when it unlocks.
Ship the raw quarts with your spices ship, and set up glass production on your main island. You'll need close to two small trading ships full of resources for this. Upgrade some of your peasant houses, don't forget to increase clothes and spice production. Set up weapon production and build a tournament arena. Pay all tributes to all players. Your economy can handle this easily, and it takes a lot off your mind.
Use your honor to improve the 'Ingratiate' skill, then use it frequently. The above two can help you avoid war for a while, but eventually Lucius will declare war on you try to take one of your islands. By this time you hopefully have some weapon and glass production going, so build a keep or watchtowers to protect your island. Use your flagship or some small warships to protect your trading routes.
All the while keep building new peasant houses. You should aim for at least 3 Marketplaces full of houses.
Ascend to noblemen, upgrade your lower ranks as well. With this population you can eventually afford going to WAR!/list Destroy all AI players, then it's smooth sailing to finally become IMPERATOR! An excellent guide Savfarmer, thanks for all your work. It's really interesting to see the starting game documented so precisely. I'm well aware that it is vital to get your starting game right and to get through it quickly, but it's an area that I've never really been good at - I tend to dither around doing things far too slowly and thinking about long-term plans far too much.I'll certainly give this a try next time I'm starting a game. Regardless of the level you're playing at I think an efficient start is always a good move.Only one comment really: looking at your screenshots your cider farm layouts seem a little. Arbitrary, I suppose.
I have standard layouts for most farms which I use, and even if I'm only laying down a single farm for now (my standard layout covers 4 farms) I'd use my standard layout, build one of the farms and leave the space to add the rest later.There again, if this is Imperator where you need to get 10K noblemen then despite starting on a cider/hemp island you are going to have to have all your cider and hemp production on another island to leave space for houses, so if this is a sacrificial farm that will be deleted later the layout is less important.Oh, and the flickr link in this screenshot. Thanks for you positive response Morf1961!I fixed the link you mentioned, and you are right about the bad hemp farm layout. I usually use layout, but I got a little lazy there - I had been experimenting for a long time.Currently I'm looking for efficient ways to get to patrician level. Because at the point you reach 54 houses, you are basically out of gold. Do you first settle the orient, build weavers, build a ropeyard, or build another marketplace+peasant houses.
Please let me know how you would go forward!-Savfarmer. I would say normal Peasants are the best way to make money, better than selling your overproduction.
I did a little calculation: 3x Ropeyard + Hemp farm: Selling all produced ropes Using the same resources to build a Market place, Fishing hut, Cider farm and a bunch of peasant houses.It turns out that Peasants with their tax on yellow result in a higher profit, with less hassle and resources required. How this is relates to Nomads I'm not sure. They can survive on only dates, so your production would be cheap, but building the houses requires tools, which is a resource that is very precious before you get your second tools loop up and running.I'll be updating this thread soon with some extra timelines for settling the Orient and ascending to Patricians and Noblemen.Stay tuned!-Savfarmer.
Originally posted by savfarmer:Send your Orient ship to the island you picked, but don't settle it yet.Settling the Orient Use your Caravel ship to build the following on your Oriental island of choice: 1x 1x 14x 1x + 1x /list Quick question: was your oriental ship just sitting there for that whole time? Most hard strats I've seen (like the General and First 15 minutes that you mentioned) bring that ship home to use the tools for occidental development.which tends to mean that when I want to expand my oriental settlement I have to wait for a shipment from 'home.' My biggest problem in trying to use those strats is having my resources in the wrong place at the wrong time.not to mention having the Corsairs demand 9000 gold when I have 2000. Running and repairing crimp my style!
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